Curse

Maria The Princess · Jun 22, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfawx

you mean vampiric is 5:1?.

yes im sry i made mistake

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfawx

and another thing is that 20/20 doesnt mean 1 out of 5.. could be 0 out of 5 or 5 out of 5. .

very true, this is why sundering is not my prefered mode

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfawx

I still dont believe that vampiric is that much superior, if superior at all to sundering. I will post my results

Also every vampiric weapon I've used is not 25 per shot .. Its 5 per shot .. 5x5 =25. Which still doesnt beat a single sundering hit in my experience.

yes thats what i wanted to say. when you are using vampirik mode, you KNOW that after shooting 5 arrows at the sam etarget you will do an +25 damage OVER ALLL hits, but as u pointed out, you cant realy predict that with sundering. also, sunderuing migh do more damage on diffrent armors, lik evs a warior its going to be less damage. but a vamp bow will consistantly drop+5 damage to every arrow no matter what is the armor

Nexium · Jun 22, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

it might not do super dmg but it's still the best ''Dmg'' mod that dosent have any drawbacks..
the sundering is an good all around mod since you wont be runing around whith VAmp mod all the time cause that whould be silly...

JR · Jun 22, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexium

the sundering is an good all around mod since you wont be runing around whith VAmp mod all the time cause that whould be silly...

Learn to weapon switch... or teach your monks to deal with having to heal a -1 degen.

If you could actually work out the numbers yourself, you would see that it is *still* mostly garbage.

odly · Jun 22, 2006, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

The -1 health regen of Vampiric is not even worth mentioning. It has absolutely no bearing on a character whos primary focus is to deal damage.

It did cost me my survivor title when my 5 year olf hurt himself and I had to go ...

Nexium · Jun 22, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Learn to weapon switch... or teach your monks to deal with having to heal a -1 degen.

If you could actually work out the numbers yourself, you would see that it is *still* mostly garbage.

geeze
it's pretty obvious that you switch weapon if you have a weapon whith vamp mod

it's not rocket science to figure that one out,why should monk haft deal whith it if you are wasting your hp on a mod your mod your problems..

so what whould you have chossen then if you couldent chose vamp mod then
sundering is still the best alternative to the vamp if you are looking for some extra dmg..

fenix · Jun 22, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

wow...what do you people want? I can picture it already:

Update: December 2nd, 2007

Sundering mods are increased to 80%/80%

If you didn't like it at 10/10, and don't like it at 20/20, don't you think it's about time you pick a different mod?

JR · Jun 22, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexium

so what whould you have chossen then if you couldent chose vamp mod then
sundering is still the best alternative to the vamp if you are looking for some extra dmg..

Why would you not be able to choose Vamp? That is a silly arguement, that doesn't make Sundering any more attractive.

Or you could just use Elemental, because just about everyone uses Armor vs. Physical these days.

Nexium · Jun 22, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Why would you not be able to choose Vamp? That is a silly arguement, that doesn't make Sundering any more attractive.

Or you could just use Elemental, because just about everyone uses Armor vs. Physical these days.

i Asked you WHICH you whould have chossen but you make it into a such big deal.i think it's stupid runing around whith vamp as primary weapons,thats why i think sundering is an good all around ''Dmg''mod first you run upp to what ever you want to attack then you switch to vamp and so on..
and second what are we talking about anyways it seems half the ppl are talking about pvp and the rest about pve...

Agree whith Talon he's go a point there

Don Zardeone · Jun 22, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

SUPERB IDEA FOLLOWING BELOW

How to make sundering suck less and improve PvE assassins!
Make sundering activate on critical hits!

Sundering Sword hilt: 20% armor penetration on a critical hit

What would happen?

Vampiric would still be the weapon of choice but sundering would be the main rival. Stances would suddenly be something that doesn't last since people would suddenly use wild blow for the 20% ap that is guaranteed (unless blinded right?)
Assassins would probably get overpowered though.

Think of the possibilities!

And the price on sundering would raise too.

Happy · Jun 22, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

And in PvE sundering still sucks more than vampiric as well. It simple math why is it so hard to admit vampiric is the better mod?

You sundering folks are just being stubborn with out any basis to go on.

Credit for this list go to: Fender from Wrath of Nature it was posted on another forum but i'll dump it here for downright comparison.

Against an AL 60 target w/ perfect vamp your damage increases over base by:
sword 8.8%
axe 8.4%
hammer 9.7%
bow 12.4%

Against an AL 60 target w/ perfect 20/20 sundering your damage increases over base by 4.6% for all weapons. Much better than the 1.1% a 10/10 sundering mod would get, but still well below vamp.

vamp vs AL 70
sword 10.4%
axe 10.0%
hammer 11.6%
bow 14.7%

sundering 20/20 vs AL 70 compared to base all weapons 6.4% (10/10 = 1.3%)

vamp vs AL 100
sword 17.6%
axe 16.9%
hammer 19.4%
bow 24.8%

sundering 20/20 vs AL 100 compared to base all weapons 8.3% (10/10 = 1.9%)

CartmanPT · Jun 22, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

If you like vampiric better, use vampiric and leave sundering.

Or maybe i should start a petition: Buff non max damage weapons because they deal less damage than a max damage one

Undivine · Jun 22, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CartmanPT

If you like vampiric better, use vampiric and leave sundering.

Or maybe i should start a petition: Buff non max damage weapons because they deal less damage than a max damage one

I wouldn't really call that a fair comparison though. People get non-max damage weapons because they have nothing better until they get to the higher level areas. You use them because you have little choice.

If you just crafted a nice bow at the weaponsmith and you want to put a damage mod on it, you have a choice between vampiric and sundering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talon

wow...what do you people want? I can picture it already:

Update: December 2nd, 2007

Sundering mods are increased to 80%/80%

Heh, here's what I picture -

Update: December 2nd, 2007
Vampiric mods changed to only trigger 10%-20% of the time.

dgb · Jun 22, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conelead

I agree. Do something about the staff/hammer/dagger issue first. Especially the staff thing. With the common introduction of +5 energy swords and axes, there is absolutely no reason to run a staff. Ever. Staffs are stupid. Think about it this way.

Staffs give +10 energy base, have 2 base mods, and have 2 mods you can put on them.

Both of the 2 base mods can be on your offhand (you just have to look for the right offhand, usually 20/20, but if you want something like bleeding duration + 20% recharge, you can find it).

Staff wrappings and sword/axe hilts have the same mods, so they offset each other.

Insightful staff head is offset by the energy +5 sword, and you can still get both mods on your offhand, so by running the sword + off-hand you get +17 energy instead of +15, and still get all your mods. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to run a staff. The only thing you can do with a staff that you can't do with a sword and offhand is a +60 hp staff. However, I have a number of things that substitute. I can substitute on of my base mods (recharge, cast time, condition duration) for +30 hp and thereby also have +30 hp, and STILL have 5 more energy than you. Or I can just choose to have 30 less hp and 5 extra energy. Either way, I really don't see a reason to ever use a staff now.

This is not true. In a choice of four mods, a sword/focus locks you into one being an insightful, or 10% recharge, which is not allways optimal.

BigTru · Jun 23, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by CartmanPT

If you like vampiric better, use vampiric and leave sundering.

Or they could just balance Weapons/Armor, just like how they balance skills so that more things become viable for use?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Jun 23, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

How about make Sundering Penetrate 10% Armor always?
Would that be better?

Cottage Pie · Jun 23, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Yet another thread about sundering, arrrgh! It's fine as it is (it did need the recent buff as it used to be literally useless), as it has NO drawbacks. None. Use vamp and your lifebar drops, use ele and you may reduce effectiveness Vs certain armours, use zealous and energy drops, use poisioned, crippled, etc, specific bonus related to an attack skill....etc.

Sundering is well known as the noob mod; People want that one leet skinned sword with leet 15^50 with the one leet mod (sundering). For gods sake, learn to play the game and have an armoury of swords/whatever weapon you use. Any warrior worth their salt should have at least 5-10 weapons for various tactics etc, that 400k spent on a leet sword could buy you an armoury of weapons and shields and respect from fellow players for your knowledge, ability and understanding of the game, now over a year has past the wheat really is getting separated from the chaff

Cottage Pie · Jun 23, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

How about make Sundering Penetrate 10% Armor always?
Would that be better?

constant damage boost with no drawback, nah. Warriors do enough damage by just point-clicking as it is ^_^. Perhaps different sundering mods for the various weapon classes...an assasin 10% chance/100% penetration mod would be intresting and kind of in the style of an assasin...

anonymous · Jun 23, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexium

i Asked you WHICH you whould have chossen but you make it into a such big deal.i think it's stupid runing around whith vamp as primary weapons,thats why i think sundering is an good all around ''Dmg''mod first you run upp to what ever you want to attack then you switch to vamp and so on..
and second what are we talking about anyways it seems half the ppl are talking about pvp and the rest about pve...

Agree whith Talon he's go a point there

Why would you buy a sundering weapon so you can run up and go im so leet with my sundering mod to the mobs so you could then switch to a vamp wep? any decent player that is paying attention would switch to an empty weapon slot then switch back to your vamp wep when you need to fight. you dont need to hold a sundering weapon so you dont lose health when you arent fighting, its the same as holding nothing.

BigTru · Jun 23, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cottage Pie

Yet another thread about sundering, arrrgh! It's fine as it is (it did need the recent buff as it used to be literally useless), as it has NO drawbacks. None. Use vamp and your lifebar drops, use ele and you may reduce effectiveness Vs certain armours, use zealous and energy drops, use poisioned, crippled, etc, specific bonus related to an attack skill....etc.

Except there is no drawback to Vamp, Zealous, Poison, Cripple, or Elemental mods, so long as you know how topush the F1-4 keys to switch weapons.

There is no reason to swap into Sundering. Never. Not a single use for it.

Zealous outperforms other mods in energy management. Elemental outperforms other mods for damage vs warriors. Vampiric outperforms other mods on everything else.

You use Sundering for damage. It does not outperform Elemental mods against warriors. It does not outperform Vampiric against anything. It is a broken mod. It is not fine as is.

If you know how to use Vampiric, you will not lose a single point of health from it and in some circumstances will gain health. Again, there is no drawback to Vampiric if your F1-4 keys are working properly and even if it was just "+3/5 unconditional damage bonus" and "-1 health regan" with no lifestealing/gaining (ie, a real -1 health regan), it would still be the prefered mod over sundering. That shows itis not balanced.

Rogier · Jun 23, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

a little bit signed
maybe vamp is better, but it has a drawback, even if that drawback is soo minor it still is one, sundering doesn't have one at all
i agree sundering is not that good, but it doesn't have a drawback at all, vamp has